Okay, Rules Update: In light of exploit issues revolving around migrating civilians at no cost to rapidly annex neutral stations, I've decided to institute a Migration Penalty to keep things more on the level. From now on, Migrating Population (to other stations, owned or empty as colonists, or as part of a trade between players) will prevent their production from being effective during the turn of that move. Example: Station A has 10 Pop > Migrate 4 Pop to Station B >> Station A has 10-4=6p to work with for that turn > Next turn: Station A has 6 Pop, Station B has 4 Pop Hopefully this will dissuade people from shoving 20 pop from one side of the map to the other just to annex neutrals without a hitch. It will also incur a "re-tooling cost" in the event you wanted to max out a station with a desired bonus resource. This penalty does not apply to civs who are kicked out of a station as a result of paranormal activity or successful invasion; those things occur between turns. They simply appear next-door for the next turn.
Thanks for clarifying Warhawk, that make sense. And I think the new rule is a good compromise, adds a level of choice and resource management, which always makes things fun and interesting.
I'm considering making another change to the map: The rules state that men moving over the surface need filters, will be attacked by mutants, and if civilians will lose a quarter their number every jump while exposed. These are all units that can be kept track of, and that's fine. But what is 'not' tracked are trade caravans. Now for the most part it's okay to say that trade needs a clear line of sight, and Neutrals permit trade, so the only things stopping them are broken lines and hazards. It's assumed that caravans can't march clear across the surface of Moscow without getting seriously jacked up. That said: There are sections I've marked as "above ground" on the map that are really just bridges over rivers that promptly go back underground. If I keep considering them above ground like the rest, you are guaranteed attacks by mutants, will require filters, and, most importantly: Trade is cut. Honestly that strikes me as foolish. At worst the bridge collapsed, and sure, you might have a little fight on the way there, but would you consider the entire line unsafe because of that one specific point? Spartans, Nazis and Communists make bases on the surface all of the time, and while small, evidently have the room to set up things like motorboats and elevators. I'd think that people could find a way to safely navigate those bridges. So I have two options, and I'll put it to a vote: - An exemption for those areas, where all you require is a filter for military units, and no other penalties exist. OR - I remove them from the map entirely. The only above-ground places would then be exposed stations (which can't trade as a matter of course) and the trails between line ends (which are big no man's lands, certainly not for trade either). Both of these would retain the features stated in the rules, meaning you can move across them (at a cost) but cannot trade through them. Thoughts?
I like the first option more. Even though it would suck to have to provide that many filters, for whatever number of military personal one may be transporting, it makes sense -and it sticks true to how some of the stations actually were, in the games (I can't remember if the book was like that though).
This is fair since it's "based in reality," but in terms of the game, units don't slowly slide across the map. Nothing is automated: You go from station to station. It strikes me as very unfair for a single bridge to be comparable to an entire line, and it adds significant costs, particularly in the realm of player interaction. As it is, I can't trade with VSV, and won't be able to until unless I connect through another line. The same would happen up where the Red Line has a bridge, or to the south of that, and so on and so forth. It's one thing to have the big above-ground stations, but there are also big differences between a single exposed bridge and surface tracks.
Ah those are rivers? For some reason I remembered you originally planning on having roads on the surface or something for motorized vehicles to take advantage of, and so just assumed the blue lines were roads and the grey spots were entrances to them or something. I agree then, they really serve no purpose, and only exist in our map on one single spot. We could give them some more thought later if we want, especially if we ever get into a second round of this, but for now we might as well either remove them or just pretend they don't exist/have no effect. I'd also like to propose something quick; the game is moving at a decent pace so far, but for turns like today where everybody got theirs done on the first day, it would be cool if we could just mark at the end of our post that we are ready for the next turn, and when everybody has posted that they're ready, we move on to the next turn whenever Warhawk is ready. That way we can still make changes if we want, but once everybody is committed and ready, we're not all just sitting around with nothing happening for a whole day or so. Also, might be worth still extending the next turn to 10pm EST in two days (instead of, say, 2pm if we end it at 2pm), even if we end it earlier, to make sure we don't effectively shorten our time frame for those who do need time, if that makes sense.
... It's Moscow... :tsk: I was considering surface vehicles but decided to strip the added complexity. What I 'did' add were above-ground routes between stations at the far ends of the map, allowing you to jump from one to the other without being totally choked by the Ring Line. They exist in several, four to be exact. One of them I think is legitimately a full line above-ground but it's impossible to distinguish on the map because of the abbreviated size and layout of these stations. So long as I can get around to updating, sure. I will say, though, that when you begin fighting with each other, changing orders up to the deadline will come into effect. Keep that in mind. That has always been the intention, yes. It's what happened these past couple of turns when I cycled them early.
Well I'd never looked at an actual map of it before. I'm sure Komo would be shaking his head in shame if he actually read this thread. Take away whatever nerd cred points you need to. Yes, I figured they were something along these lines, though I now see the grey lines between outer stations on the in-game map and see that's what was actually implemented. Was talking about the current playable area. Of course. And we can always change it later for some reason if we want, just might be worth doing to keep things moving during these earlier, slower rounds with less variables to contend to. I figured as such, just wanted to make sure.
In that case, it's just the Smolensky Metro Bridge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensky_Metro_Bridge https://www.flickr.com/photos/30977654@N08/9223773561/in/pool-2031425@N22/ So imagine trying to get across this bridge. Otherwise the line is underground and clear sailing.
Having that be a barrier would be realistic, but for gameplay purposes I agree that it takes more than it really improves the game. I mean, if you wanted it to be both realistic and practical, maybe we could say that there's some kind of maintenance tunnel or something that can be used to safely cross that area on foot, but motorized vehicles would still have to use the surface?
Considering the tons of unmarked, undisclosed maintenance tunnels and service stations that we aren't using, that's a valid argument.
I like the idea of marking our posts as being ready for the next turn. If people participate, then it helps. If not, then oh well. I'll start marking my posts when I'm done and ready. And any solution that involves me not getting cut off is one I like, haha.
Alright, it's settled: I'll remove all of the above-ground areas that are not directly over stations. It's just not worth it for gameplay, and we've already had plenty of serious disconnects due to paranormal and radiation hazards.
Oh wow, I misread the date. We have yet another day to wait for the next turn. Uh, I vote to go ahead whenever you're ready. I guess you can wait for everyone else if you want, but it doesn't look like anybody's still contemplating their turn.
After a lengthy delay and a bit of drama, we're finally at a point where at least two of us have a reason to talk to each other. VSV, I believe you can figure out for yourself what we will end up talking about. You only have to ask yourself one question: Do you feel lucky?
You may have noticed that I'll be able to annex, a station, by the next round, since I have both the double amount of population and the double amount of military powa! My question is: since my station resides next to two neutral stations (TRETYAKOVSKAYA-B and KITAY-GOROD-A) which both of them happen to have half the population and at least half of the military power that I'll have (by the next round) will I be able to annex the two, in one swipe? Thanks again.
