UPDATE: June 29th It looks like this idea gained a lot more attention than I would have expected, and so much the better. It's moving along to completion rapidly, and all we need are players to sign up to get the ball rolling. The other posts relative to the game are also here in Other Roleplay: Link to signup thread Link to game thread Link to rules thread ======================================================================= Hello everyone. I've toyed around with various ideas to this effect but it's time to mention one involving the Metro universe: Imagine a turn-based strategy game crossed with Metro, where you have complete freedom to found, build up and fight with your own factions. Send Stalkers to the surface to scavenge for fuel, fend off mutants and bandits, trade with your neighbors or crush them on your way to complete dominance of post-apocalyptic Moscow. Some of you may be familiar with the Metro 2033 Board Game. This game will take a similar tack, but with a wider focus, less emphasis on heroes and specific events and more on player-generated conditions. The setting can start from any number of points, be it a canonical 2033 layout or from scratch. Resources can be pre-allocated based on the real life layout of Moscow, or randomly generated. The game will be played on a daily basis, where every day is a turn. All actions, be it the use of resources or moving military units, will therefore occur simultaneously. All players will have to do a minimum of bookkeeping to keep the model going, but as GM I would verify each update and check for illegal moves. Inactive players would have 3 days to get back into things, during which time their faction will operate under "autopilot" where units will not move and only resources required for unit maintenance will be used. Resources are simplified but nuanced, with dramatic consequences. The most critical resource ends up being Manpower or Population. Factions can literally be exterminated, and as military units take away from the population, a faction can be fought to death. Raising the population count is a difficult business that requires an excess of food, so losses are not easily replaced, at home or on the front lines. And let's not forget MGR, which doubles the attack power of military units. Beware, you hoarders of bullets, for the day will come when you must use it or lose it! While the game has concrete mechanics and can be played from day to day, players are encouraged to write roleplay threads outside of the main thread in order to describe events, conduct diplomacy and provide a story for the game's skeleton. This is entirely optional, however: A mute gaggle of homicidal bandits may very well simply fight to the last man and last round, but those who do roleplay and conduct diplomacy will likely end up with all of the resulting advantages. What's the objective? There are several possibilities: First is to have a set number of MGR or some other resource which will constitute an "Economic Victory." Second is to have a good ol' fashioned war of elimination. But to be honest, players could simply play for the heck of it. This game would permit the creation of a "living" universe, a backdrop for any number of additional stories. Depending on the amount of canon involved, it could wind up totally different from the existing Metro universe, but that would be for you all to decide. With the fanfare out of the way, here are the problems: First - Updating all of the numbers can be a drag. I'll do my best to simplify the process, but if you're afraid of numbers... and most people apparently are... then this game will keel over, Fast. Second - The number of players is important. When the map you're using covers the entire Moscow metropolitan area it tends to be important to have factions filling in the gaps. In theory you could play a 1v1, but it would get very stale. Similarly, if players started too far apart, it would take literally days for them to even come into contact with each other, and the capacity to project power would be limited. Third - Interest. Self-explanatory. A wordy post like this separates the stalkers from the nosalises but the genre of the game goes even further. The success or failure of this idea depends on interest and participation. So, if anyone has questions or comments, please leave them here and I'll be happy to respond. The number of people interested will end up determining not only whether or not I make the needed resources, but how big the map will be. So if you want to play as far out as the Botanical Gardens I suggest you join up!
This sound like a lot of fun . Komodo Saurian made a metro-maifa type game a while back, like Bamul had mentioned earlier, and I though it was loads of fun. I do hope others decide to get into this. Also, maybe there should be a grounded MGR currency purchasing system. What I mean by this is having a strict guideline that shows how many bullets can buy certain things -and this would affect everyone. Example: Ten bullets will allow you to buy a rail cart for faster transportation. I know ten bullets is very little for a rail cart, but hear this part out...A player can only gain bullets by posting in the Metropolitan Strategy Game. Since this forum already has it's own bullets currency system, we'll just count the number of posts a player has and multiply it by two (the standard number of bullets per post) and say they have that many bullets in-game. If they purchase an in-game item (player doesn't actually donate their bullets to another player) we'll just deduct the number of bullets they spent and write it down on paper or game-logs. The more a person posts, the more bullets they get. The more bullets they get, the more items the can purchase to expand/defend their metro station. It's gonna involve a lot of numbers, like you said. Also, we would then have to make a chart that shows how much everything cost, which would be very time consuming. I don't know, it's just an idea.
I think you may have misunderstood the context, here. The game is large-scale metro. Picture a Civilization level. It's not a single squad, or a single station, but 'every' station. Because of that, MGR is a resource that can be harvested. All resources can be produced depending on the population of a station, but certain locations have bonuses to collecting that resource. So if for example the Armory had its factory above ground, that station would receive a bonus to producing MGR. It could produce twice the amount as a station without that bonus. All resources go into a pool, but all stations operate independently. Therefore, the Armory station could be your main MGR powerhouse, whereas VDNh could be geared towards food, and so on. Any station can produce anything, but the costs become higher the more important a resource is. MGR, for example, won't be as important and costly as Research, which lets you build things like Virus Bombs and Armored Trains. You could have all the MGR in the world, but try firing it at a virus. The game will generate its own economy. Players can trade between each other, but only through connected stations, and that means things like trade embargoes and the like are fair game. You can trade through a single neutral/unexplored station, but there is a 25% chance that your caravans will be hit and the resources lost. So the idea is to either be on good terms with your neighbors.. or eat your neighbors. MGR, since it doubles fighting power, has the same value as it would in the Metro story. But unlike on a single-player level where you can dodge enemies, slip through cracks, hoard it for weapon attachments and so on, as the leader of a 'faction' you will be regularly burning it in combat. With all else considered equal, the faction with more men and more MGR will win. This is where diplomacy, technology, and other factors come into play. If I created a neutral "bank" to take MGR in exchange for supplies, it would defeat the purpose of being the ones 'making' the supplies in the first place. Who would be doing the buying and trading if not you, the stations themselves? And to tie it to user post count would be 'very' unfair. This is a game with clear cut rules, winners and losers. Put ten people in a room and then give one of them every gun known to man, and you see what's wrong with that picture. You can cooperate with other players, sure. There are mutants that will periodically attack and need to be contained otherwise they will spread. But by the end of the day, this game is about faction wars, about nation-building, and destruction. Metro writ-large. If everyone plays like Spartans barely anything will happen, but if everyone plays like Savage Cannibals of the Worm Cult then you're just going to be extinct in a few days.
I understood, from the beginning, that this isn't a small scale game that exhibits turmoil between small bands of loners; but, how is one to determine what factory, cache, location, etc., has more of one thing than another? Say, I could figure that the location I capture has 50+ ICBMs in storage and also has a robotic army of super soldiers that have been waiting, for years, to be awakened. I win. With the MGR system I proposed, I was only trying to figure out a fair way to determine how a player makes 'money.' Someone who post all the time should -considering they make valid posts that contribute to their station and the game- generate more money that someone who hardly posts at all. How is this going to be determined? The player themselves? Are they going to be allowed to say what is made, how much, and how cheaply? Or are you going to regulate a set of rules that shows what they can produce? Again, I could say I make nuclear warheads and decide to send them to your station. There could be a penalty given for those who use the bank. IDK Hmmm, a contradiction. I don't see how it would be unfair with the post-count scenario. The more one participates, the better advantage they have over another person; just like in the real world. usually, the more a business person contributes to their trade, the more profitable outputs they will experience. An idle business person, that does the least possible, will more than likely have their trade, shut down, rather quickly. Why should someone who does more work to build their station (continue posting) have their society equally stable as someone who hardly posts at all. Well, this sounds like it'll be a difficult thing to keep track of. When you've made up a set of rules, I'll be happy to try it out. And if I came off as an @$$hole, I didn't mean to.
Every station has a population count. Let's call it a "Pop." Every Pop can generate 1 Production Point per turn. These must be used each turn, or they are wasted. It takes "X" number of production points to generate a resource. Any resource. And any unit, in fact. Ergo, a bigger population = the more you can produce, and the more 'kinds' of things you can produce. Stations 'may' have a special resource, a local one which is easier to make. This cuts the production cost in half. Examples: - You own Armory Station. It has a population of 5. - Its special resource is MGR. - It costs 6 production to make 1 MGR. - Because you have the special resource at Armory, it now costs 3 production there. - The next turn: Armory produces 1 MGR and wastes 2 production. Or you can double up: - Food costs 2 production. - A special resource would make it cost 1, but Armory doesn't have that. - The next turn: Armory produces 1 MGR and 1 Food, using all production points it has. And if you can't do it: - Research costs 8 production. - A special resource would make it cost 4, but Armory doesn't have that. - Armory only has a population of 5, which means 5 production, so it can't perform Research. But, using resources from your faction-wide pool: - Research costs 8 production. - 1 Fuel per 5 Population doubles their production. - You spend 1 Fuel on Armory - The next turn: Armory has 5x2=10 Production, so makes 1 Research, and 1 Food, using all production points available. All resources are dropped into a faction-wide pool, to be used by any (connected) station and any military unit. But they are generated on a station-by-station basis, depending on both the station's size/capacity and any extra bonuses, i.e. Fuel. Therefore: stations can serve a specific purpose. You can make them generate their own food, or ship food in from elsewhere. Likewise, you can get your food from a friendly faction in exchange for, say, guns. That frees up production for other things. So what about growing the Population, to increase production? Population can be grown using Food. But a station also requires Food for upkeep. The rule is 1 for every 5 Pop. If Armory Station has 5 Pop, then it costs 1 Food per turn to keep it that way. Examples: - You have 4 Food in your pool. - Armory does not produce Food this turn. - Armory uses 1 Food for upkeep, and you're down to 3 Food in your resource pool. Or if you fail to keep up: - You have no food left in your pool. - Armory does not produce Food this turn. - Armory doesn't get 1 Food, so 1 Pop starves to death. - Armory now has a Population of 4. It will continue to decline to Zero if left alone. And growing population? You need extra: - It costs 1 extra Food than the minimum per turn to grow a population by 1. - Armory has a population of 5, where 5=1 Food per turn. - You spend 2 Food on Armory. - The next turn: Armory gains 1 Pop, now with a Population of 6. - Armory now requires 2 Food per turn or people will starve. And so on: - You spend 3 Food on Armory. - The next turn: Armory gains 1 Pop, now with a Population of 7. - Armory still requires a minimum of 2 Food per turn until it reaches a Population of 11. Make sense so far?
Ah, yes. Crystal clear. Pretty good system. It reminds of a similar one, used in this online-text-based-adventure-game, someone once posted here. I don't recall the name of it, though.
So yeah, players make the economy themselves by choosing what to make. In theory, with a big enough faction, you could be self-sufficient. But the idea is that resources are scarce, and population is always depleted by fighting, so every point in anything counts. 1 MGR may be the deciding factor between a station's survival or defeat at the hands of a mutant pack, but it may just be a drop in the bucket between the Red Line and Reich. And though everybody can trade with each other, they can only do so through the Metro, never above-ground. We're talking bulk shipments here, not individual guys like Bourbon with a knapsack. That means your stations have to be linked together with regularly patrolled tunnels. And if you're not directly connected, then the faction in between has to allow the trade. This allows you to act like Hanza, choosing when and where factions are allowed to deal with each other, or acting as a middle man and getting your cut. Provided the other factions don't wipe you out, of course. As it stands, I think I'm going to use the "Blank Slate" map. This means that all resources, all conditions, just about everything is randomized, and uncovered as you explore with Stalker Teams. Some stations may start out infested with mutants. Some may be independent stations you can cow into submission or take by force. Others will be abandoned. Some will have a surplus of resources nearby, or the means to make them. Some will be barren slabs of concrete where you might be able to "colonize" and eke out a living. But as it stands, there will be no predictability, at least until the map is fully explored. Resources can be abundant or scarce, all depending on the RNG. Of course you can make resources yourself, but at full price it's painfully expensive. Mutants can attack through openings anywhere, and are randomly generated, so don't be surprised if bad things happen when your armies are away from home. And don't go thinking that the map is comfy cozy... for all you know, those tunnels could be collapsed, or tainted by radiation, or worse.
For the record, the board setting to prevent posting URLs of any kind until I reach 15 posts is the only thing preventing me from showing what I have so far, lol.
I'm intrigued, but I've started a few giant projects like this before and neither reached the fruition. Wonder if this one is different.
Aye, this sounds good, though there is so much room for error (human mistakes) with so many things dependent on people rather than computer algorithms. As for the 15-post requirement, sorry about that - I know it's a pain, but we have so much spam on these forums that it is simply a must to reduce at least some of it this way. If you don't see much of the spam posts personally then it means the mods have done a good job for the day and deleted all of it before anyone had a chance to see it, but you might actually see more of it since (I think) you live in an American timezone. If you look around the other sections of the forum then you might find some discussions that interest you and you'll reach the requirement before you know it. Alternatively, if you don't want to wait, you could PM the link and I'd post it here for you.
I've noticed quite a number of spam accounts being registered, but no posts as of yet. Well everything is still in preliminaries here so it's just as well that it isn't posted quite yet. I'm making the map in Flash, so it'll be easier to work with, like instantly swapping out owners and the like. The big problem there is clutter: I can't keep station names on there while adding more than just the original circle, and military units can stack up fast. But if I can squeeze that on, I'd say about 80% of the game will be visible just on the map. As for human error: absolutely. Hence it's not going to be 'too' complex. "Simple but with depth" as the saying goes. For example, you can send forces to the surface to bypass caved in tunnels and destroyed stations, or even stations you don't have permission to travel in. But you can still only follow the paths of the stations on the map, as opposed to having a 1:1 terrain map and measuring distances between actual locations like we're playing ARMA or something. And food is "food," no mincing details between mushrooms and pigs, etc. The most confusing resource combo right now is Guns vs. Weapons, where Guns represent simple, metro-made equipment like Bastards and Revolvers used in equipping Militia, whereas Weapons is pre-war, heavy duty gear that can equip regular soldiers (elites by comparison) and eventually armored cars and trains. Hopefully with enough streamlining it can be easy enough to manage. I already have a kind of flow-table of actions you take every turn that just hits all the necessary points, each section with its own "totals," and then you just add the totals up at the end to show resource consumption/production. Making resources fall into a pool rather than apply to each station one at a time did a lot to reduce the clumsiness of previous designs.
Holy fuck. You'll probably have to walk us through the steps a little at first as to what's available for us to do and the choices we have, but if you're willing to do so and actually make it work, then sign me up.
Of course. It's easy enough for me to yammer on about it because I can play it in my head. Just a bit boring without other minds at work, eh? It's deceptively simple. The only real "difficulty" comes in having to add and subtract all the values yourself. And really if you can pass 5th grade math you'll be fine. A lot of this game will be balancing scarce resources: stock up 6 MGR over the course of several turns, feel all warm and accomplished, and then you blow all of it on a mutant attack and it's still not enough. Filters will probably be the bane of your existence. Stalkers need them whenever operating outside of friendly territory, which is to say almost all the time. And all units require them when moving above ground. As a player of Metro 2033 or LL, you'll now get to experience how much of a headache it is to equip not just a Ranger or two, but entire armies to go "over the top" in such a way... and yes, they can be randomly ambushed and destroyed by mutants on the surface. Because the map is so linear, my goal was to include as many quirky things as possible without over-burdening it. Going over the surface was one. Demolition bombs to intentionally cave in tunnels and destroy stations was another. Virus bombs to clean out the opposition without caving them in was another. Armored car groups and trains offer more mobility, moving faster along the rail network than troops can, but can be easily stopped by destroying the tunnels/rails that they need since they can't go to the surface. Stuff like that.
I haven't done any serious work in Flash, but if it turns out to be insufficient for your needs then I recommend Serif PhotoPlus. Previously I was using a full version of one of its older iterations, but I lost that somewhere when I was transferring data from one PC to another and now I'm using a starter edition of a much never version. It's pretty good, though obviously they lock some of the features out for the starter stuff. I use it mostly for modifying maps and it has proven more than suitable for the purpose. As for the resources, I do not know how much of it you already have planned so I'm not sure whether adding anything new at this point is possible without reworking the system, but here are some of my suggestions: Belorusskaya Trade Outpost (consisting of stations Belorusskaya, Dinamo, Aeroport, and Sokol) could have food bonuses as they are known for their livestock. VDNH, like you said, could also get a bonus to food. However, shouldn't their tea production be considered as some kind of luxury resource? Tea isn't really food and it's more like something that makes people happy, so I personally think it would be more suitable to grant it the status of a luxury resource (like in the Civ games) with its own effects. Pechatniki is another station that produces tea. Similarly, drugs could also be considered a "luxury" resource in that they are recreational - not essential. Though I can't remember which stations were known for their drugs. Paveletskaya is pretty much abandoned as it is continually raided by mutants (in the game they call it Hole Station). At Sevastopolskaya they produce electricity, so those controlling it could get an electricity bonus. Kuznetsky Most deserves a production bonus, especially in regards to post-apocalyptic weaponry. Teatralnaya could also have some kind of bonus, but I'm not sure what type since they are more about "culture" than manufacturing anything in particular. If you decide to add luxury resources then I guess they'd sort of fit that. Here is probably the best in-universe map of the Moscovian metro that you can find in English. I'm guessing you're getting rid of all the factions as who controls what will be defined by players, but are you keeping any neutral factions controlled by the GM to make things more interesting? Also, as I'm sure you're aware, the status of some stations changed drastically between 2033 and 2034 (not only due to the war with the Dark Ones but internal struggles and mutant invasions). I'm certain it will change a bit again in 2035. To make things simpler I would forget about making it completely "lore-friendly" and just mix and match the situations from both books to come up with something that makes for a more interesting game. I would recommend some other features if I could (in terms of which stations do what), but the last novel I read from the series was set in Rostov-on-Don and I haven't read either of the original books by Glukhovsky in literally years. Come to think of it, I haven't played any Metro game in a while either.
So far I'm running under the assumption that keeping it 100% lore friendly would be detrimental to roleplayers. In theory I could emulate the game or novel situations 1 for 1, but for the sake of this game I'm going to make it 100% blank slate. That means resources will be randomized too. Stalker teams will be your main way of scouting out an unknown metro line, since they can choose to avoid combat with anything other than opposing Stalkers. As players explore the map, conditions and resources will be randomly generated. Tunnels may start off collapsed, mutants may already be in evidence, and some neutral stations may already be set up with limited functionality. The hope is that the map is no longer predictable and will be interesting to uncover. Instead of knowing exactly where to go from the start, you shoot from the hip. News travels via the grapevine, though, so everyone shares the same "fog of war." Beware of uncovering riches next to your enemy instead of yourself! Since I want to play but will be GM at the same time, I'm going to generate these as we go according to various percentages. I won't know where anything is either. Therefore the most predictable thing you can pick is where you start, but what resources it has, and what it's tunnel connections are like, is totally random. .. And yes, that is in fact the map I'm basing mine off of.
Shit, sorry, that was the wrong link (same map but not thumbnail). :lol: But since you're already using that one, posting the proper version now is redundant.
Of interest are the "above-ground" sections. I've retained those, since that's a factual distinction. As a result, you can travel across them, with vehicles too, but they require filters as if you were going over the surface the old fashioned way. It also means you can't colonize those stations, but they can have problems with them. And their distance in some places, namely the western line, means that you will have no opportunity to repair them if they are destroyed. Consider that section a wasteland, because it is: only the last two stations on the line are underground, while the rest are mainly stuck above-ground or very close to it, rendering them too dangerous to live in.
Now that I've got 15 posts, I can finally post this stuff! So here's an example of the map as it is. This one has all of the station names still there, but for the game map they'll be removed to reduce clutter, with a reference map available for naming. I can toggle these in Flash which makes it easier for me to update. And here without clutter: See if you can follow along: - Dark gray areas indicate Unknown/Unexplored by any player - White areas indicate known areas but are not owned - Colored areas are owned by virtue of having colonized stations at both/all ends So: - Central Metro Command has explored its immediate area, owns the entire region where Polis would be and the connection between that and its colony in Polyanka - It has explored nearby to find a cave-in at Arbatskaya-2, an irradiated station at Smolenskaya-1, a trio of neutral, independent stations around the Theater, and is in the middle of exploring a massive concentration of mutant infestation to the north, with a single Stalker unit Likewise: - Central Metro Command has a mere 4 militia units defending itself from invaders - The independents are fairly well armed by comparison - The mutants, if concentrated, prove a major threat - Meanwhile the Stalker team can choose not to engage with said mutants, hence they can stay at Chekhovskaya And in terms of resources: - Borovitskaya has a bonus to Research, which is the rarest type of resource - Arbatskaya-1 has no resource bonus at all And with population: - Between its stations, CMC has 29 Pop - Each military unit is a pop and must be fed, and they have 4 Militia and 1 Stalker - Total Pop = 34 - 34/5 = 6.8 -> 7 -> This faction requires 7 Food per turn to prevent starvation of any of its Pop or military units And to put that to practice: - Polyanka has a Food resource bonus - Polyanka has a Pop of 3, and therefore 3 Production - Food costs 2 production to make, with the resource brings it down to 1 (halved). If Polyanka is fed 1 Fuel for it's 3 Pop (1 Fuel for every 5 Pop) this would double its production to 6, and if all production is geared towards Food it would provide 6 per turn, making up most of the food requirements. ... Etcetera, etcetera. Anybody following along? The little triangle symbols are something else entirely, treated differently than the symbols at stations themselves, but that's for later.
